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9 months ago
Friday, December 19, 2008
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30 comments:
wtf happened there?
keo spins!
get some s&s couplers and save that thing!
Man just buy another one! This one is only $1180 USD... :)
http://njs-keirin.blogspot.com/2008/12/bomber-pro-gun-metal.html
Sweet frame though....
i guess its a good thing you own a bike shop huh?
not the bomber pro!!!!!
perfect example why track frames are not made or suitable for modern day-real world paved "road" riding...they are not meant or built to take the everyday pounding of street riding,thats one of the reasons they are different than road bikes now add doing tricks on it and your "cool" track frame loses life and strength in the long run - but i guess looking cool like everyone else is more important than proper function....
yeah... 'cause your average road bike is much stronger, right? I mean, a track frame would break way before a road frame.
Come on, man. There's maybe one company I can think of that builds trick specific 700c frames, and everything else is either track or converted road. You can't bust someone's balls for using what's available.
Anonymous, I think you have a very flawed understanding of bicycles.
Not all track frames are created equally and the quality of tubing and lugs on Blackshaw's bike is comparable to many high end steel road bicycles.
So you're wrong that all track frames are weaker than road frames. In any case, track frames are often built to withstand greater forces of torque that track riders exert on the stays, bottom bracket shell, and down tube of the frame.
However, the NJS bicycle is not well suited to the intense style of tricks Blackshaw has been accomplishing lately and it probably is a poor choice for a trick frame.
There are plenty of options for frames that can withstand these types of impacts and there are even companies building track frames meant for trick riding (FBM, Milwaukee, Volume, Charge, Shadow Conspiracy, Brooklyn Machine Works, Geekhouse, etc.).
its a basic fact track frames are designed and built differant than road bikes. road bikes are built to take the abuse of just that "road riding",and due to the differance in frame geometry between the 2 are a little stronger than that of a true track bike were they need to be. there are several reasons behind this and they are all valid. here are just a few 1)track bicycles are designed specifically for use on velodromes(bicycle tracks) road bikes are designed for road riding.track bicicyles are set apart from road bikes by more than the fact that they have a fixed gear.frame geometry of a track bike is far differant than that of a road bike,since tracks do not have potholes,bumps,curbs,brick streets,speed bumps etc.. they are built to be stiffer with more upright frame angles (which is for the purpose of maneuverability) thats what makes them far more of a harsher ride on real world pavement and less suitable for such. 2. track bikes have very tight tire/wheel clearance and are designed to use very narrow tires/wheels that are far differant than that of any road tires or whhels or the so called "track wheels" that are being sold today. 3. track bikes are made to be used without brakes, brakes are not neccessary on track bikes and most tracks forbid the use of them for safety reasons,sure you can fit a front brake onto a track bike but read the next factor: track bike fork blades are more rounded in shape than that of a road bikes fork which are oval in shape, this makes them(track bike) overall stifferand more rigid laterally which is needed for hard out of the saddle sprinting which is common in track racing, this makes them less rigid front to back, thus if you put a brake onto a track bike fork/frame set up you will casue the fork and lower front of the frame to flex objectionably to the point (in the long run) of failure.....just like say a mountain bike is made differant than a road bike for a reason, track bikes are made differant than road bikes and yes road bikes are stronger than track bikes no matter what they are made out of material wise or how there put together lug wise due to the differance in frame geometry. trust me ive been around the bike industry,working in it and riding bikes (mountain,track,road, etc..) for far longer than most of you have been alive.so i'll put my 2 cents up and back them up any day.
"so I'll put my 2 cents up and back them up any day"
Anonymously?
No bike made today, track trick or road, is going to be perfectly suitable for the use most of us have for it. We have to deal with what's available and the best option in most cases are track bikes. Does their tight geometry make them great for tricks: YES. Are they durable enough to drop 4 sets or 180 barspins: Not for long. Is that going to stop any of us from trying them: NO.
Keep in mind, all of us use these same bikes in races and as commuters. Considering all the above, do you really think any other bike would have lasted longer and performed so well?
It sounds to me like there is some animosity, or you are just looking to pick a fight with comments like: "cool" track frame. Keep in mind, Blackshaw had a track bike before it was "cool". And he will still have one when it becomes "not cool"
Again, anonymous, you've shown your ignorance in this matter.
There are plenty of road frames with aggressive geometry and plenty of track frames with relaxed geometry. Bob Jackson makes a traditional grass track-style track frame that has the qualities you describe in a road frame. I also just bought an aggressive road frame as I ride a Pista Concept and find the geometry of a track bicycle very comfortable.
The Cinelli Xperience is a road frame and if you pay attention it is the exact same geometry and materials as Cinelli's track frame, the Vigorelli. The only difference in the frames is the track ends vs. road drop outs. And I'm sure as an industry insider you know you can call Cinelli and find out that the butting profile on the frames is the exact same. The carbon forks are different models but the only difference is drilled vs. not frilled.
You speak in generalities and have no examples other than your non-constructive rhetoric. I truly doubt you are a bicycle mechanic and anytime you'd like to back up your facts then I invite you to share with us who you are.
i usually try to stay out of internet arguments because it makes no sense to throw in your "2 cents" because both sides think they are right and both sides will not change there minds about not being wrong no matter how many points or actual facts each make or post....i am an avid cyclist -i've been riding bikes since i was 19 - track,road,single speed & mountain. i've raced road bikes in uscf sanctioned events, i've ridden track velodromes and competed in many 24 hour mt. bike races, from what i gather the point being made in some of these posts is i think he or she (?) is trying to say - track bikes are made for a speciifc reason, racing on velodrome tracks, they are really not intended for road riding and that is why we have road bikes.well yes that is true( but see my last lines in this post-please) the point about road bikes vs. track bikes and which is stronger, well i think a road bike would last a little longer and be stronger in the course of its lifetime than a track frame would be because your using one in an environment that its not intended for and yes a track frame would eventually succumb to wear and tear from being used on roads before a road bike would, but only due to the extra stress it would be put to or put on it ( thats what i think)besides it does take alot to really kill a nice frame doenst it ? most of my loses have been real hard spills or hits by cars......as far as this person calling you all out, fuck em' the way i look at it is "hey if there riding bikes then more power to them, at least they are out there riding them!!! and that meqans more people enjoying a great sport and riding more bikes - personally i have a 2 multi gear road bikes(an old 80's steel and a newer one) an old mid 80's classic steel bike converted to a single speed that i use to ride to and from work a few days a week and run around town with( that i have had for years now)a late 80's track bike (yes a fixed gear) that i have had forever and used when i did ride track back in the day -i admit i dont use it the roads around town much becuase its just not practical and its a harsh ride on longer rides( its one of those all aero style ones, low up front/high in the back ) but every now and then i take it out to a school track and have blast, a full susp. mt. bike and a front susp. hardtail mt. bike..i love riding and enjoy the hell out of using my bikes as much and as often as possible. a fitting quote "if one was never to use something for a purpose it was not really intended for,then what fun would the world be ? "
Hey! Another post! No facts supporting claims! Hurray! Internet!
man that sucks. that was by far my favorite bike in orlando. i guess you can just add it to the collection on the wall.
"the cinelli xperience is a road frame and if you pay attention it is the exact same geometry and materials as cinelli's track frame the vigorelli" ,.. well no you are wrong again....go to there web site if you must!!! and compare the same size frames for both models, lets use the med. size shall we -they are no where near the "exact same geometry" as you say ..the vigorelli is in fact a true track frame,the xperience is a road frame and is somewhat similar but not close to being the same big differance between the 2, even the pista concept they offer as a "track bike" is differant geometry wise than the vigorelli... most of the so called "track frames" being offered today by the big & small companies around are far from being a true track bike, sure they are close frame geometry wis, but putting track drop outs onto a road style frame and calling it a "track bike" is not the same.(pake,giant,even the famed bianchi model track bikes sold are listed as "track style geometry" or "near track geoemetry and that is a fact. atrue track bike is far differant as i said before. its shorter in the head tube,usually longer in the downtube, higher bottom bracket shell (for clearance), slightly longer/taller seattube and sharper rear angles alkl of which serve a purpose for what they are desinged for..track riding/racing. check out a few true sites like velodrome.org. or even look into sheldon browns site and look thru some pics of real track bikes and you will see the differance you p.s i never said anything about working at a bike shop did i..? no i dont think so, i worked for many year in and around the cycling industry, riding,racing, representing companies and teams, i evne have in my personal collection a 1996 gt track bike (a real track fame) that was a backup bike from the atlanta olympic track team that was given to me due to being involved in as an asst. trainer.....i would love to see one of you try and ride that around town on the streets....you would knock out your teeth and break a bone or 2 after you fell hard.........
I said you weren't a mechanic because you obviously have no idea about bicycles and materials if you think that road frames are always stronger than track frames or that the two styles can have many similarities despite their different labels.
You honestly sound like someone who does not ride bicycles often and has a very limited understanding the construction of frames.
anonymous - man give it a rest already!!!! to a ceratin point you are right, yes a true track frame is different than a road bike,i think we all can agree with that point. But what you fail to grasp is(if im not correct here,then sorry ) there is more than just one style of track bikes, there are the true-pursuit style ones(which is what i think the "anonymous" poster is talking about) they are full on aero and run lower in the front, have a bit higher bottom bracket shell for clearance and are higher in the seattube section for aerodynamics, but there is also another style that is a bit more relaxed and very close to that of a road bikes geometry.so he is basically wrong in his thinking. Now who cares, let him think he is right, sounds like a stubborn mule and he is not going to change his view. i say who cares whattype of bicycle it is as long as your riding it!!!!!......
i am going to weigh into this one again.
if blackshaw was riding a road fame the same way he rode that bomber pro it would be broken in the same amount of time. that isn't a brand new frame, or actually even close to a new frame.
it would be broken faster if it was carbon road bike!
anyway, this has nothing about track bikes vs road bikes. this has everything to do with repeatedly doing huge drops and and the forces that are involved in "trick" riding. that frame lasted over a year, and if it was ridden like a rider like me (commute only no tricks) it would have lasted as long (or maybe longer if it was a carbon bike) as a rode frame.
a lot of people in these "track" bike trick videos that get people so riled up about are not, and never claim to be on, track bikes.
most are actually fixed gear hardtail single speed mtb's with 700 wheels and 35c tires.
but really what does that even mater? some people say if you want to do tricks ride a bmx. they have a point, the bmx tricks are way cooler and faster and all around more awesome in the gnar dew action sports tour way. but bmx bikes are shitty commuters, which is why a lot of the bmx kids are moving over to "track" bikes. one bike to commute and if you got some time or see a good line you can get your trick on.
anyway, i just say a lot of really long posts and wanted to jump in the fun.
Anonymous,
You insist on posting so matter-of-factly, but don't have the balls to use your real name? Honestly, why would anyone give credence to an anonymous argument? Man up, buddy. No one else here has found it necessary to hide behind an anonyous identity.
Oh, and different is spelled with an E for fuck's sake, not an A. Your gigantic brain is clearly overflowing with information as is, so I understand that it may not have room for basics like grammar and spelling.. And while that's hardly the only mistake you made (repeatedly), just do me a favor and add that one little tid bit of information to your mental cache so I can read your pompous ramblings without cringing.
What a looser (hahahaa)..
Watch out, Katie the Grammar Nazi (fresh off the slopes of colorado) has made her appearance... :)
I have to say I've actually enjoyed this post and the comments it has spawned. Believe it or not I actually learned a thing or in two in light of the condescending tone contained in some of the posts...
That said, just two things I would like to address to anonymous:
1) Come up with a name all ready! While I can appreciate your desire to remain anonymous, just using that as your handle is pretty lame and can be confusing when there are multiple people doing so. Clicking on the name/url button below the comments box allows you to insert any name your heart desires. Call yourself "grumpy ass bike purist who hates people using track frames on the street" for all I care, just come up with something...
2) I'll put my volume frame up against any road frame out there. In fact, I'll put $$ on it that it will outlast any road frame you can come up with. As Jared mentioned, there are several companies building frames based on track geometry that can take the abuse of this particular type of riding. Several of the road conversions I rode previous to getting my volume didn't hold up to the wear and tear that I have heaped on my current ride. Look in to these frames (Volume, FBM, Brooklyn Machine Works etc) and you'll see why I feel this way...
catfish needs coffee..........
Grammar Nazi! Haha, thanks Gus. My main point was: Spout off all you want, but you'll sound like an idiot regardless of what you say if you write at a 3rd grade level.. Maybe that's just me. Probably is. But hey, at least your blog banner doesn't still say "peddle." ;)
it was a play on words and that's the official story... :)
but gus, your volume frame isn't a track frame, although it does have track dropouts.
like mine it is an "urban single speed" frame? i don't think you will ever see volume at the velodrome :)
but i agree, your volume frame will hold up better than a road bike conversion or even a track frame.
i think our unnamed friend is missing the point that this is about riding fixed gear and all the neat things that are being explored because of the simplicity of the drive train.
as far as tricks go the road and track frames will hold up the same. they break after you repeatedly smash them to pieces. the bmx comapnies (volume, bmw, etc) see the fun and functionality of this new type of trick/commuting style of riding and are starting to create bikes that are built for this.
this is a really new thing, and the frames are just now starting to come out. you can't get all pissy because freestyle 700c frame hasn't been invented yet, and people are experimenting to make it.
like i said my frame was marketed as a urban single speed, not a track frame.
semantics! :)
No you're right, it's not a true track frame but it's geometry is track inspired. I've read that Volume wanted to create a strong frame that had the same basic tight geometry of a track frame...
i kind of like "differant" better its like being different and ranting all at the same time..... sorry if i spelled anything wrong im not a bad speller but do have awful typing skills..."i love pickel juice" ...el chupa1 (oh yeah i spell pickle wrong as a joke,not by accident) long live anonymous!!!!!
anonymous
what business is it of yours how mr. blackshaw rides his bike or what choices he makes on componentry. it'd even be different if you were correct in your generalization that track bikes are weaker than road bikes, and all your stupid complaining about it really amounts to nothing as you could never prove that ALL track frames are weaker than ALL road frames or that it would even be relevant information in this case.
just so you know, i'm going to laugh in your stupid face whenever your bike breaks and have a pissing contest with you about how much i know about bikes, even though the offended party is out riding them, and not just being a stupid asshole on the internet.
ryan
the whole point is to do things that were not meant to be done on track bikes,,,,thats the whole fun...what kind of bike a person to chooses to ride is none of anybodys biz except the jigga who worked for the money to pay for the bike...anonymous is just trying to show ho much they "know"...if you dont like track bikes why even waste time on this blog...you are probably white...
I can understand the backwards circles and track stands, but come on. The whole freestyle fixie trend is almost as lame as the razor scooters. There are so many better suited bikes for this style of riding.
I'll be really glad when this fad dies out.
To Mr. Anonymous
Good God man, don’t you have some kids to chase off your lawn or something. It’s not like you are paying for these peoples bikes, get over it. It’s not like everyone has a velodrome handy to bomb around in. You need to relax, if you want to get pissed about what people are riding write to those that fill the department stores with flashy garbage.
There are plenty of bikes out there and I don’t think there will be a shortage any time soon.
Do you even remember why you started riding in the first place? It was fun right? Let them have theirs.
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